What, in general, is your book about?
Stephen: This book is about how you can use raw fruits and vegetables to improve your life. It is about how to capture more of your true essence -- your true, natural self.
David: We feel that our book is one of the most profound works of all time. Unlike most other diet or self-improvement books, we provide our readers with information which they can use immediately to make radical improvements in their lives. We bring the highest-quality information to our readers to help them attain the highest levels of health possible. When your health improves, every other aspect of your life improves simultaneously! We combine some light-comedy, with a serious message, in a stunning format. Our book is designed to create an unstoppable momentum in every reader.
Nature's First Law is also the name of your organization, is that correct?
Stephen: Yes. Our organization, Nature's First Law, is dedicated to bringing about a world in which disease, pollution, famine, and ignorance will be only memories of a dismal past.
David: Think of all the labor that is futily wasted when food is planted, grown, harvested, and then subsequently destroyed by cooking! These are the concepts we explore and discuss.
Back to Top
What is wrong with cooked food?
David: Cooked food is dead food. You cannot revitalize living cells with dead food. Cooking destroys the vitamins and minerals in your food. Isn't that obvious? Fire destroys! Cooked food eventually clogs up your body, beginning with your large intestine or colon. It damages and irritates all your internal organs. It causes you to behave erratically. It causes you to degenerate prematurely and it creates diseases artificially. All the diseases of civilization: cancer, heart disease, diabetes are all directly attributable to the consumption of cooked food.
Don't you eat anything that is cooked? How is that possible? How do you do it?
David: No, we don't eat anything that is cooked, dead, or denatured in any way. This diet is easy, once you know the facts. No one could have the discipline to do this diet if there wasn't something going on biologically. Eating cooked food has nothing to do with the normal biological requirements of the cells. Any food put to flame becomes addictive. Once you break away from that you open yourself up to the most incredible discovery of all time. Our book is really the most powerful personal development strategy put forth by anyone.
Stephen: When you add flame to something, it becomes less than it was before. If you don't believe me, try adding flame to your house. Will it become more...or less than it was before? Well, the same situation exists with your food. If you add heat or flame to it, it will become less than it was before. The ramifications of cooking are massive.
Back to Top
Haven't humans adapted to cooked food?
David: We have, but not in the way that most people think. How is it that an animal such as a field mouse, that has never eaten cooked food in its genetic history, can be captured, fed cooked food, and still live. Did it instantaneously adapt to cooked food? Just because you can chew up something, swallow it, and live long enough to tell others about it does not mean you've adapted to it. White bread, for example, has only been around for the last 100 years. People eat white bread en masse and they are still alive, does that mean they've adapted to it? Cooked food has a cumulative effect on the body. It builds up over time and prematurely wears out your body and severely damages your internal organs. Just because its dangerous effects are not felt immediately does not mean it is not damaging.
But I feel healthy right now, why do I need to get into a raw-food diet?
David: Do you ever suffer from any colds, fevers, headaches, body pains, allergies, etc? These symptoms, which are considered normal by civilization's standards, are actually dangerous, pathological conditions caused by eating cooked food. How many animals do you see blowing their noses? How many primates do you see coughing their lungs out? People think they are healthy, but they have never experienced real health.
Back to Top
What is a raw-food diet?
David: A raw-food or fruitarian diet is a natural diet. Every single natural organism on the planet eats exclusively raw foods. No free-living creature ever tampers with its food. Some people consider this diet the next step past a vegetarian or vegan diet, but it really transcends all diets. It is simply the natural way to nourish your body.
Why would anyone want to follow such a diet?
David: This diet is the most incredible discovery in human history. Again, every natural creature feeds exclusively on raw foods. When you follow this diet you reach a level of success, health, and vitality you never before thought possible. I know one gentleman who has been a raw-foods enthusiast for 37 years. He became the number one insurance salesman for his company out of a field of 13,000 -- simply nobody could compete with him. Remember: cooked food is dead food. Anything that is cooked or denatured becomes a lifeless substance. You cannot revitalize living cells with dead materials.
Back to Top
You use the terms raw-food and fruitarian interchangeably. Do they mean the same thing?
David: Once you start on a program of raw nutrition and begin to get cooked food out of your body, you immediately gravitate towards eating more fruit. This diet at first cleanses you of all harmful poisons and then builds you up to an exhilarating level of health. That is what fruit is, it is a cleanser. Fresh, ripe fruits stand out as our best food source. Humans are not omnivores. That idea is civilization's gravest error. If you think humans are meat-eaters then try eating the animal raw like every other meat-eater on the planet. If something is not palatable in its raw state then you probably shouldn't be eating it. Humans are frugivores. That means we are naturally designed for a diet of mostly fruits and some vegetables.
What about meat? Do you eat raw meat?
David: No. Humans do not have it in their physiological ability to take down a wild animal, kill it, and rip out its guts with their teeth like a carnivore. Humans are not biologically carnivorous nor are they omnivorous. Could you imagine yourself nude, barefoot, with no tools or fire, trying to tackle a wild animal, kill it, and eat its guts out?! Eating animals is not in our biology. Think about it, if you gave a child a banana and a rabbit, it would eat the banana and play with the rabbit every time.
Back to Top
What are your credentials in the field of nutrition?
David: Both my parents are doctors and I grew up in a doctors office. I was given strong lessons in health at an early age. As I grew older I began to read all the medical, health, and nutrition books in my house. I have read hundreds of books on the subject of nutrition. Overall, my educational credentials are quite extensive. I have degrees in Political Science, Mechanical and Environmental Engineering. I'm currently completing a law degree at the University of San Diego. I've had the privilege of studying at some of western civilization's most prestigious schools including Oxford University in England.
What about you Stephen?
Stephen: I don't need any credentials. Does a gorilla need credentials to know it should eat raw plant food? What credentials did Christopher Columbus have as a scientist? Truth is not enhanced by credentials, nor does it suffer for the lack of them. Truth stands on its own. If something is not true, it fails. There is no better test of something's worthiness than good results. Success leaves clues, so does failure. If you want to be successful, listen to successful people. If you want to be rich, listen to rich people. If you want to be healthy, listen to healthy people.
You seem like you are in good spirits and great health. How much of that would you attribute to diet?
David: There are many factors that make up who you are as a human being. Diet is one of those factors, and it is one of no small importance. You are what you eat. Eat life and become more alive.
Back to Top
How did you get into this raw-food way of life?
Stephen: It was the reading and self-education we did on health, diseases, and diet that got us into the raw-food diet. We focused only on success -- success stories, people who cured themselves of disease, people who lived the longest and healthiest, people who had traveled and observed human beings all over the world. We did not focus on the standard medical dogma, because that has all been a failure. There is more disease, sickness, and misery now than ever before in human history. We started bouncing some ideas off of each other and our partner R.C. Dini and we really got into some amazing things.
What about steaming vegetables?
David: Once you artificially add heat or energy to food, you alter it biologically; you kill it essentially. Science explains that the enzymes in food begin to break down at 102 degrees Fahrenheit. When foods are eaten that are deficient in enzymes, the body has to use its own enzymes, which are secreted by the pancreas, to break down the food. Eventually, on a diet of dead food, the pancreas becomes swollen and irritated and like a row of falling dominos, the other digestive organs begin to have troubles as well.
Back to Top
What do you do for protein?
David: We get asked this question all the time! Protein is no more important than any other element in our food. When people have a craving for protein, it is really an addictive craving for cooked protein. Cooked protein does not feed the body. You can get all the protein you need from raw plant food -- yes, even fruit has protein. How is it that a cow can grow hundreds of pound of protein flesh from simple grass which hardly contains any protein at all? It is not protein that is necessary to develop proteins in your body, but the essential amino acids which are present in raw fruits and vegetables. The mass frenzy on the subject of protein is the product of an elaborate media campaign by the meat and dairy industries to push their products. The truth is no one ever suffers from a protein deficiency -- and certainly no one ever dies from one. But people die of protein poisoning en masse every day. Heart attacks, strokes, cancer, etc. are all the inevitable results of overburdening the body with cooked animal proteins.
Stephen: People always ask us how we are able to have great strength without eating any animal products, taking any pills or drugs, or eating any cooked foods whatsoever. The truth is, no natural animal ever tampers with its food. The strongest, most powerful creatures are the herbivores. A gorilla can benchpress 4000 lbs. A gorilla never eats anything except raw plant foods. A chimpanzee looks skinny but it can rip a car door off of its hinges. It's just logic. 99% of human DNA is identical to the chimpanzee. The tribes of chimps that hunt and eat meat are much weaker and don't live nearly as long as all other chimps. Simply put -- Nothing unnatural can ever have any good effect on the human body. Cooked foods such as meats, breads, pastas, steamed veggies, etc. are totally unnatural and have massive harmful effects on the human organism.
Back to Top
But isn't this diet too hard for the average person?
Stephen: The average person is just that...average. Our book is written for those who are searching. As the saying goes, "Those who search shall find." Anyone who reads this book will start eating more raw fruits and vegetables and will feel healthier regardless of whether they can follow the entire diet or not. You can't help it, because the book is written to get you to take action. It's automatic.
David: We put forth an ideal for people to strive for. The core of our message is very basic. This diet is child's play. Every kid knows "apple" or "mango." We are not seeking to change or convert people. Only they can change themselves. What people do must be the product of their own conclusions. We provide the logical arguments and give people the information which will cause them to think and grow in new directions.
How long have each of you been on a raw-food diet?
David: I cut out meat and dairy completely about 7 years ago and I've been a raw-foodist for more than 3 years now (1997).
Stephen: 2 1/2 years (1997). With us, there is no chance of eating cooked food ever again. We have a little joke that goes: "Even one kernel of popcorn per decade is a severe cooked-food addiction!"
Back to Top
Do you think your philosophy is extreme?
Stephen: Today's heresy is tomorrow's orthodoxy. We represent a force of resistance against enormous odds. We are at the forefront of a movement which proposes to reshape the world. Therefore, we serve the future and not just the passing hour. The greatest and most enduring successes in history are those which were least understood in the beginning, because they were in strong contrast to public opinion and the majority views and wishes of the time. Every great idea once began on the fringe. The response we have received from the youth, ages 14 to 25, has been startling and incredible. They know there is a lot of power in what we are saying. They don't believe we are on the fringe at all, they see our message as being very logical and ideal for the future.
David: Our idea is not extreme at all when you consider that every single natural creature without exception eats exclusively raw foods. It is the vast majority of humanity that is acting extreme by eating cooked food, smoking, and swallowing poisonous medicines. There was a time when everyone who thought the world was round was thought to be extreme -- even insane. Thirty-five years ago, vegetarianism was thought to be fanatical. There are many more raw-foodists in the world than you might imagine -- I am continually surprised. Our numbers are growing all the time.
But isn't this diet primitive?
David: At present, humanity is in an even less than primitive state. People are drowning in their own addictions, pollutions, and diseases. The entire human race is enslaved to cooked food and is at the beckon call of countless, uncontrollable vices. Humans were once a higher, superior type of being.
Like myself, I know that you are very concerned about environmental issues. Do you feel that diet is related to environmental issues?
David: What is incredibly interesting is that the best diet for you is also the best diet for the environment. We go into this extensively in our book. We would rate humanity's food choices as the number one cause of environmental problems. There was a great book written in the mid-1980's by John Robbins entitled: "Diet for a New America." This is one of the best source books for information on how your diet affects the world and the environment around you.
Back to Top
How different of a world do you think we'd see if everybody ate raw?
Stephen: I could give you an answer that would sound nice, but it would not sound believable. In reality, it's indescribable, incomprehensible, and unfathomable to people who haven't experienced 100% raw-foodism. It's the difference between night and day. It's the difference between an inner-city slum and a tropical paradise. Cooked-eating environmentalists are total hypocrites. If they really cared about cleaning up the environment, they would start by cleaning up their own bodies first. All pollution begins with cooked food...no exception. Look at a landfill. What's in it? Cooked-food trash, cooked-food appliances, and cooked-food technology. All trash is attributable to cooked food -- either directly or indirectly.
How much of technology, etc. do you attribute to an unnatural/toxic cooked-food diet?
Stephen: All the technology that is harmful to the environment is obviously directly attributable to cooked-food addiction. We are not against all technology. We are against its application when no thoughts have been given to its consequences. We support every technology that improves and supports the natural order and a zero-pollution way of life.
Back to Top
How would you describe the connection between diet and violence?
Stephen: It is a known fact that child molesters, rapists, and others with uncontrollable, unnatural sexual desires have the most cooked, abominable diets. It is literally impossible to behave naturally when one has cooked-food poisons ravaging through one's body. Cooked-animal extracts cause homicidal impulses the same way in which potent drugs such as PCP do. Generations upon generations of cooked-animal eating terminates DNA synthesis. Thus, a mutant such as Jeffrey Dahmer comes into existence. Can you imagine Jeffrey Dahmer eating a piece of fruit? No way -- he was 100% cooked. Where did O.J. eat right before the murders? McDonalds, right?
What is your position on spirulina and blue green algae?
Stephen: We don't promote consuming anything that has been denatured -- even in the slightest bit. Pills and powders are not natural, of course. If you want to eat algae, go to a lake and eat raw algae as other natural creatures do. All the information and pseudo-science fed to the masses about the supposed "benefits" of these denatured supplements is erroneous, hypothetical, and inspired by greed. To say that a pill or powder is beneficial is saying that Nature has made an error by not offering us these foods in a processed, refined state -- which, of course, is ridiculous.
Back to Top
What kind of water do you drink, or do you?
Stephen: The purest water in the world is the living water in raw plant foods, especially fruit. A raw-foodist has no need to ever drink water as long as there is adequate raw plant food available. We only drink water if we are in the mountains (where fruit doesn't grow). We eat snow, and drink snow run-off in the spring. The only reason that people need to drink exorbitant amounts of water (the 5-7 glasses that doctors recommend) is because of the cooked-food extracts they eat, which are massively dehydrated. As far as distilled water goes, it is an unnatural human-made creation, and again only serves to dilute denatured food. You want an absolute abundance of the most pure water on the planet? Eat a melon.
The truth that you touched on in your book that really impressed me was that people reproduce so much because the body knows it is dying.
Stephen: This is also why we are seeing so much teenage pregnancy. These kids' sexual and reproductive organs are being constantly irritated by not only cooked food, but the most toxic cooked food at that! Teenagers are notoriously known for fast-food, candy, drugs, etc. It's no wonder that they have bad acne, violent tempers, seemingly blank minds, no motivation, etc.
Back to Top
How do you address that women who go on a raw or fruitarian diet usually lose their menstruation? I have read that it is because the woman's period is, in reality, a release of toxins.
Stephen: In my opinion, it's the same thing as a runny nose. Like you said, the body is simply purging foreign and waste material. I know many women who are 90%+ raw, but unless a woman is 100% for an extended period of time, the menstrual data that we receive is quite meaningless. If even one unnatural substance is consumed, there is no possible way to have a true result -- it has been corrupted. I'm sure if I was a woman, I could give you a much better answer.
David: I have a girl-friend who has been 100% raw for a year now and she still menstruates.
Is juicing okay?
Stephen: Extreme situations require extreme measures. Though juicing is unnatural, understand that people have gone decades polluting their bodies -- sometimes you have got to use every bit of technology that is at your disposal. Juicing is excellent for the transition period to the raw-food diet. Drink juice to get the raw plant food into your body. Make sure it is freshly made. Many juices are pasteurized; in other words -- they are cooked -- dead. Juicing is great to get the raw food in and "flush out" your system, but it is better to eat your fruits or vegetables whole and intact.
Back to Top
But how can you survive cold weather without warm food and drinks?
David: Warm food gives one a false sense of security. One is warmed up or stimulated for a few minutes only to be left cold a short while later. It's like taking a hot shower: Are you more resistant to cold weather if you take hot showers or cold showers? One feels warm after a cold shower, and weak and depleted after a hot shower which drains one's vital energy. I am much more resistant to cold weather now.
Stephen: Yes, me too. I recently went snow-skiing nude! Cooked foods and hot beverages actually make one more susceptible and less resistant to cold weather. Prisoners at Alcatraz were actually forced to take extremely hot showers so that, if they ever escaped, they would not be able to survive the icy-cold waters of San Francisco Bay. How do you think wild deer survive the harsh, cold winters in the Canadian forests on simple grasses and shrubs? They're still genetically strong. They haven't been weakened by the laws of civilization -- more specifically, cooked food.
Isn't a diet of raw fruits and vegetables unbalanced? Isn't fruit too alkaline? Don't we need a balance?
David: When a lion stalks a zebra it doesn't think about getting certain grams of fat, carbohydrates, or protein. When a gorilla rips into a piece of bamboo it is not worrying about balancing yin and yang foods or eating foods which correspond to its ayurvedic body type. Animals are guided by their food instinct, not by cooked-food human ideas and charts. Humanity's food instinct is corrupted by cooked-food. Once you cleanse the body of cooked food and other toxins, your instinct returns -- and that instinct is for raw fruits and vegetables (mostly fruit). Every raw, whole fruit or vegetable is perfectly balanced and is not devoid or lacking in any way.
Original 1996 Article courtesy of Nature's First Law
Back to Top